This interview has been published by Anshi Mudgal and The SuperLawyer Team
As a dual qualified lawyer, we would love to start from the very beginning. How and when did you decide to pursue law, and how did you end up deciding that it was the right time to move on and do your LL.M. as well? We would love to understand your journey, challenges, and how you built your road to excellence.
I’m from Benares. I did my schooling there, and my father has a business and is also very active in social work. Back then, when I was in school, he used to write letters to authorities on various legal issues, troubles, or policy changes he thought were required for businesses in India. I used to take an active interest in what he was writing, and sometimes he would ask me to draft those letters. I think that’s how writing and my early interface with law and business began at home.
When I was faced with the question of what I wanted to do, looking back now, I find it quite funny. There were many doctors in my family, so the obvious choice seemed to be medicine. But when I said I wanted to be a doctor, everyone at home said, “Oh no, we already have too many doctors, you should become a civil servant.” So, I initially wanted to become a civil servant, and that’s why I went to National Law University, Delhi. I thought, in Delhi we have everything, all the coaching, and law was considered a great subject for IAS aspirants.
But when I started studying law, even before entering college, while preparing for CLAT and AILET, I fell in love with it. I used to read The Indian Express and The Hindu daily in Benares. I joined online coaching with Career Launcher because law wasn’t a very well-known option there at that time. This was back in 2012, and now it feels like history. Those days of reading newspapers and following legal developments made me fall in love with law. I realized that after studying law you could do everything a civil servant or even a politician could do in public interest litigation, fighting for the rights of disadvantaged people, becoming a corporate lawyer, anything was possible. The sky was the limit. So, I decided I wanted to stick with law.
You don’t necessarily have to be a public lawyer, or a corporate lawyer, or any one thing you can carve your own path. That’s when I firmly decided to become a lawyer. Initially, I thought I would practice in the Supreme Court of India. I never imagined I would go to the US. My frame of mind was always to practice in Indian courts.
By God’s grace, I was selected for National Law University, Delhi, with an All India Rank of six, and I was the first person from Banaras to enter that institution. For a long time, I think I was the only one from my city there. My parents were very supportive, and Delhi gave me tremendous exposure. One thing I learned is that if you work hard, you will succeed.
I had no legal background, and I didn’t know where I would end up after five years. So, I focused on exploring. I did about 21 or 22 internships in college, which was one of the highest numbers in my batch. I never went back to Banaras during vacations I stayed in Delhi and kept interning. I was not sure whether I wanted to go into the private sector, NGOs, or litigation, so I tried them all.
Eventually, I realized that I am guided by two principles: hard work and being the best version of myself. When I thought about how to achieve that, I felt pursuing an LL.M. would help me grow further. I also felt my education was incomplete without it. So, after all the internships and hard work in college, I decided to pursue an LL.M. I wrote my SOPs, appeared for exams, and went through the application process, which eventually led me to New York University.
But more importantly, I want law students, especially those from smaller cities, to know that anything is possible. I consider myself from Banaras, which back then was not a Prime Minister’s constituency or the sought-after city it has become today. I am happy to see its growth now, but at that time it was still considered a small city. I want students from such places to believe that if you work hard and your aim is excellence, you can reach wherever you put your mind to.
From being in one of the top universities in India to one of the top universities in the world. So how was your journey and the transition? There must be a lot of difference between the academia of NLU Delhi and New York University School of Law. While you were pursuing, what did you do and how did you make sure that your hard work paid off in the US as well? And what was your challenge over there, or maybe whatever you felt was very different and how you approached it differently with all your diligence and hard work. We would love to hear that story as well so that students and learners can understand that for a person who has done 22 internships in NLU Delhi and ended up at NYU, she has made a name for herself. How have you done that?
It should be near 22, 21, or 25. I’m not sure of the number now. You can check my LinkedIn and I’m not even sure if I put all of them there. But anyway, I would want current students or current law students to take the LL.M. not only as an academic pursuit, not only as an academic course. I want them to take it as a professional pursuit as well. Since it involves a lot of investment, I don’t want students to just go and study. Of course, those who can afford it and who have academic inclinations or want to pursue academia should, by all means, go and do that. But many students fail to understand that the LL.M. is also an opportunity to pursue professional opportunities, and for that they have gone to the US. So utilize the LL.M. for networking opportunities, for exposing yourself to different careers and career professionals.
I don’t want current NLU students or any law students who are in their fifth year to think they will just study as much as they can in one year when they’re going to the US, London, or Singapore. They should have a balanced course, take the minimum number of credits required, and then start learning outside of college and the classroom as well.
You have conferences every day. You meet professors, you go to law firms, attend their networking events, and learn what the profession really is. That is very important. This is something students should start thinking about when they are in their fifth year of law school.
This is one takeaway that I had. And to answer your question, the difference between NYU and NLU Delhi was that at NYU, it’s a totally Socratic method of education. No one is going to check if you are studying or not. You have to guide your own education.
You have to pick your own subjects, you have to guide your own education, and you are fully responsible for your future, like any adult. So I think an LL.M. or Master’s should be done by an adult who knows what he or she is doing, and what he or she wants to pursue. If you are not sure about that, I would say work a few years in India before going to NYU or doing any LL.M. for that matter. At NYU, I had amazing faculty members who were already great and accomplished professionals. Even in the classroom, we were getting both theoretical and practical knowledge, how you would actually do something in a law firm or in court. That’s what makes the LL.M. different. That’s why it is a Master’s.
And again, landing a job in the US was very difficult. As Indian citizens, we have to get H-1B sponsorship.
You have to qualify through a lottery, then you have to get H-1B sponsorship, and you have to qualify the bar exam. Again, if you want, I can elaborate on the subject of how to land a job in the US, but that itself is a different conversation.
We’d love to understand that also because obviously the people or the students who would like to maybe see how they can plan it. Like you have explained that these are the processes, it’ll be very, very helpful if you can talk a little bit about this aspect as well. How to actually land a job, because that is another struggle. The first struggle is to reach there, and then the second struggle is to find a better job where you can stay and work as well.
Sure. So when we are in LLM, first of all, we are outside of our shelter. We have to start managing our food, our household, and it’s a foreign country. You are away from your family. It’s new people, plus it’s the pressure of finding a job. It’s a lot of things. So I always tell students to prioritize their wellbeing.
Give full hundred percent to your education because, at the end of the day, all employers are going to look at your transcript. So you should be very sure not to overburden yourself and not to take extra credits just for your academic satisfaction. Take those kinds of credits which will help you land jobs in the US.
Like if I’m a corporate lawyer, if someone wants to be a corporate lawyer, they should take mergers and acquisitions, securities, business law, contracts drafting, subjects like this, which make you eligible to sit for the bar exam and which make you a good candidate for the law firms over there. First take only those kinds of subjects. This can be a very controversial thing that I’m saying, don’t do subjects for your academic interest, but to each its own.
And if you have been there with a lot of financial difficulties and with a lot of struggles, you want to make sure that you get the best opportunity when you are out of that college. I speak with several students from India and all they want is a job in the US after doing LLM because they have put in that kind of resources to get selected for an LLM to go there.
So I would say, manage your academics well. Don’t overburden yourself and do well in academics. Start networking outside of your law school, inside your law school, network with your law professors. And networking is a long process. Like everyone says, network, network, network. But what is it? First, I would say it’s a sport.
The more you do, the better you become at it. And it’s going to be a two-way process. Like mentoring, you are going to be a mentee to someone, but again, just don’t be entitled to anyone, don’t just walk up and say, I need a job. You have to learn from their experiences.
You have to invest time with them so that the people you are speaking with in the US, who you are networking with, should understand that this person is worthy of mentoring. Become mentees to some good professionals in the US. Learn from their experiences. Follow them, genuinely follow them, genuinely learn from them.
And it’s a two-way street. Everyone knows when you’re speaking with them that you’re looking for a job. So at the end of the day, if they find an opportunity, they will let you know. And you have to keep talking to multiple people, reach out on LinkedIn, email people.
That’s what I did and that’s how I got a job. And that’s how law students from India who have no connections or who don’t have a background in law, have to make their own connections and that’s how they land a job. But it’s all about hard work and perseverance. It’s not about how smart you are to get a job in the US, it’s about your perseverance and your hard work.
While in the US, when you started your LLM and began working, you were also a Legal Research Analyst with Jethmalani & Nallaseth PLLC. After that, you were associated with Nishith Desai Associates as well, in the US itself. So how did you plan it? Why did you decide to join these institutions? And how did your internships or the kind of work profile you had in India help you understand the working environments of India and the US, because there is also a huge difference? Also, how did you adjust, and what kind of strategies did you follow to make sure you adapted well, and obviously worked as hard as you always do?
I started my professional journey, I would say, in the US. I did all kinds of internships in India, but I never worked professionally there. I went directly for my master’s. But I worked with two institutions, as you named: Jethmalani & Nallaseth and Nishith Desai Associates, whose headquarters or main offices are in India. So I have worked with Indian institutions, I would say. And then I went to Dechert, which is a big law firm. After that, I went to Davis Wright Tremaine, which is also a big law firm.
As you said, it’s different. But I always wanted to be a New York lawyer, a US attorney, and I was in New York, so I wanted to be a NY attorney when I was doing my LLM. As I told you initially, I have always been driven by hard work and by striving to be the best, at least persevering for the best where I am.
When I was in LLM, I understood that being in the US and getting employed there is very difficult. You have to be hardworking, strong academically, good at networking only then can you land a job in the US. So that became a challenge for me, and whenever I’m faced with any challenge, I am motivated to tackle it.
I had to come back to India after LLM, but I thought, “Oh no, this is very challenging. Only the best of the best, apparently, can do it.” But after these many years of experience, I can say it’s not about the best of the best, it’s about hard work and perseverance.
Then I told my father, “Dad, why not pursue a few years of employment in the US? I want to get a job and then I’ll come back.” I felt my education in the US was not complete without a few years of professional experience. He said, “Okay, go.”
Back then, I started looking for opportunities. As I said, I had no professional experience from India, so I went directly from NLU Delhi to NYU. So landing a job for me was very difficult. That’s why when I speak to current LLM students who have a few years of experience, I tell them, You are already at an advantageous position compared to what I was.
I started with the first opportunity I got, which was an immigration law firm. It was not a corporate law firm. My employer was Mr. Anil Jethmalani at Jethmalani & Nallaseth. He still continues to be my mentor. He was very kind to give me my first job. He saw that I was genuine. I had interned, but had no professional experience. He sponsored my visa, and I started working there very diligently as an immigration attorney.
We don’t have immigration practice in India, of course it is outsourced, but it’s not established there. I started working there, but I was always interested in corporate law. So I used to network, network, network. Before going to the office to do my job, which, you know, was paying my bills, I would go to different law firms, attend conferences, meet people, write to folks on LinkedIn, and request coffee chats or informational interviews. That’s how I moved to Nishith Desai Associates.
Again, Mr. Vaibhav Parikh of Nishith Desai Associates, the head of the US offices, has been amazing and a great mentor. This was my first corporate law job. I didn’t have a corporate law background from India. I was interested in pursuing something else, but when I was exposed to different things, having done all my internships, met people, followed the news I gradually decided what I wanted to do next. I had no fixed plan initially.
Then I decided I wanted to be a corporate lawyer, and I decided on this in New York. Some people plan it beforehand: they want to be a corporate lawyer, then do an LLM, then get the job. I decided this after finishing my LLM. Mr. Vaibhav Parikh saw potential in me, thankfully, and offered me my first corporate law job in New York. At Nishith Desai Associates, I also worked very diligently, and I hope they felt the same. I worked there for almost one and a half to two years.
At Nishith Desai Associates, the work involved practicing Indian law. We were co-counsels with foreign law firms, doing work for US clients who wanted to have Indian operations. So essentially, we were practicing Indian law for US clients or US law firms. Having done my LLM in New York and cleared the bar exam, I wanted to be part of even bigger global law firms, working on more complex deals. That’s how I shifted to big law, to Dechert. This required a lot of networking and meeting people, and then I came to Davis Wright Tremaine, where I am currently.
Here, I’m practicing US law as a US attorney, focusing on M&A. The clients I work for and the cases I handle are very complicated and high-profile, and I thoroughly enjoy working on them. It has been a very enriching and challenging journey so far.
Moving from an Indian law firm to a US corporate law firm, which is one of the biggest over there, what was your way to transition? How did you make that transition so easily or with a challenge, with your hard work? Also, the kind of understanding of international jurisdictions is absolutely different when you are practicing in litigation or practicing corporate law in-office, in-house. What is your understanding about that? Also, what prompted you to decide on corporate law, and how have you managed so far?
So I thought of corporate law and I decided on corporate law because it’s very dynamic and fast-moving, and I’m a person, sorry to say with less patience. So I want fast-moving things or fast results. Litigation takes many years, and the same applies to arbitration.
I was interested in international arbitration as well, and I pursued a lot of courses in that. I have publications in those areas, but I saw that corporate law is dynamic and fast-moving. I would be counsel to businesses, which was my motivation to be a lawyer in the first place, having seen my father.
I would be their go-to person. I would meet clients from the business community. It’s very fast-paced, dynamic, and logical. You have things in your control. You don’t have to stand in court for hours. You are not in front of any tribunals. If things are in your control and your co-counsel or your peer controls, I am working for my client, and the other law firms are working for their clients. I’m a very collaborative person as well. So we collaborate and give results like we collaborate to merge two companies, acquire, merge, sell, or spin off.
I wanted to do business law. That’s how I decided to be a corporate lawyer. I’m happy about my choice of law. You can see the results of your hard work in real time, which is very satisfying.
And how did I prepare for my roles in US firms? I would say there are a lot of similarities. Of course, the working culture is different. In Indian firms, it’s very hierarchical and fast-paced. In US firms, it’s also fast-paced, but there’s less hierarchy. Senior lawyers are actually invested in your development. That’s what I experienced in my law firms, Dechert and Davis Wright Tremaine. My seniors are heavily invested in my mentorship and learning, and that’s what I also pass on to my juniors. I get to learn a lot and also pass on that knowledge.
It’s high-paced, with complicated cases. At Davis Wright Tremaine, we try to simplify solutions or innovate solutions for complicated problems. For example, something you could do with a 50-page SPA (Share Purchase Agreement) might be condensed to 20 pages. We try to be very efficient for our clients because they’re paying us by the hour. We try to be as efficient as possible and innovate where we can.
So these are the differences between the two law firms, but again, to each their own. People can do whatever they want in different places, and I got to learn a lot from all of these experiences, for sure.
What kind of qualities do you look for in candidates? Because that is also a very major part of preparation for any student. And not only qualities the way they act, the kind of etiquette that you see in them, how do you judge them? After all, an interview is just one day, but the person will be with you for a longer period of time.
So what kind of checklist, or anything, can you share about what you observe while recruiting someone for such a big law firm?
First of all, this is, again, a very controversial thing to say. I should feel comfortable in that person’s company. Our work hours can at times get very challenging. We have signings and closings; we are rushing, and sometimes it’s fine, but at other times it’s super stressful. So you want to work with a person who is collaborative, who is nice, who can handle tasks independently if I assign them. Of course, it varies depending on the candidate’s year, but being nice and hardworking is key.
They should be able to take initiative. I should see from that candidate whether they are proactive and helpful, because we all work in teams, and you want people who support each other during stressful hours. Hardworking, collaborative, and nice.
When you are interviewing with law firms like these, you are already smart. You can only get to these interviews if you are smart. So all the candidates are intelligent. The challenge is to find someone who fits our culture wherever you are. The culture I look for is collaborative, hardworking, independent, and responsible for someone who says “yes” when given responsibilities. These are the things I would look for.
But again, this is something for law entrants to think about later. First, I would encourage them to have a spectacular CV, to be smart, and to be eligible to reach these places.
Intern in a lot of places. If you are sure you want to do corporate law, do internships with top-notch law firms in India. Go there, do research associateships with professors during your LLM, and then go for these interviews.
So at the very end, we would love to understand that with such a demanding professional life, the kind of commitments that you have for something you have worked so hard for, and now that you have reached that particular space, how are you planning to manage a healthy work-life balance along with being a new mom? How are you going to delegate your responsibilities, and how do you see that so far, both with your earlier life and now with being a new mom yourself? So what are your plans for times to come, and how have you managed it so far?
So far, I think I have managed it well. Not perfectly, but at least I have reached where I am and have managed it fine. I would say strategy is key. You have to be a pre-planner and be strategic about what you’re planning.
So far, every morning, I make my to-do list and try to prioritize things at the very beginning: what is urgent, what has to be done, what can be delegated to someone else, and what is something that has to be done by me. This is something I have to complete and submit to my seniors.
Every morning, I do my to-do list and plan accordingly, and I make sure that I have some time for myself for walking, for the gym, or whatever. I do that in the evenings and then have dinner. But at times, you don’t get enough time, given how corporate jobs are. I think strategy, pre-planning, and thinking about the urgency of a matter of what is delegatable, non-delegatable, and what to do in the mornings is very important.
But honestly, I’m a new mom now. I myself don’t know how I’m going to manage my motherhood, which I absolutely cherish, and I’m thankful to God for this blessing. I am just ending my maternity leave and have to rejoin my law firm job, which I really enjoy and love doing.
So let’s see how I manage those. I’m sure in my law firm, I have a lot of mothers who are balancing work and family. At Davis Wright Tremaine, we have a very good support system and a strong group of working mothers who have been very kind with their advice. I’m sure I will learn from them. But this is something I should share with you in a few years down the line how I manage my work-life balance after being a new mom.
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Very inspirational interview 🌷🌷